Serie A: LAZIO - JUVENTUS, Sunday 18-01-09

frederick wrote:

Dejan wrote:

Im proud of our team.
Its not easy to almost win against Juvents, keep playing like that and it will be beautiful season.
FORZA LAZIO

If we can't win it against half strength Juventus, I wonder what would happen if we play them full strength?

We lost the game imo, We let them control the game after the 1st goal, we failed completely.. It was all Juve tonight..

What all Juve???
They had one chance from the whole game.

check the Tare v Zarate match
http://www.corrieredellosport.it/Fotogallery/Lazio/9267/0/FOTOSEQUENZA:%20Lazio,%20ecco%20il%20litigio%20tra%20Zarate%20e%20Tare
sad to see this because Zarate has the talent to become a big player, but he still doesn't knows it takes time to become one

We totally outplayed and deprived of individuality their strongest weapons Amauri , Del Piero.If that is not improving....

I don't remember so weak Juve , I don't remember seeing them so isolated neither. We were in great position to take very important 3 points(Napoli lost yesterday) and also this win would have been great moral boost for our team.

i was thinking , i think it's good to use foggia as a starter instead of meghni . foggia always moving and help our defence , he always picks up the ball . i think it's better if we use meghni as a supersub .

on zarate and tare's fight , i feel so dissapoint im afraid , after that confrontation , zarate will consider to leave our club

FORZA LAZIO

let`s think that be instead of zara, what`s ur reaction when u see u are 3rd best player of our team in match & best forward & u want to win the game then ur sucked coch change u, what is ur reaction?

when i saw that even i angry more than zara really delio is a stupid i think . now i think end of season lazio has site for one of them delio or zarate
& i prefer zara for sure & other laziale too i think

Forza zarate, he said to delio when he go near delio i see that he said HEY to delio. FORZA ZARATE, u said what we want to said, although if all of u dont think this, i believe that he do correct

Dejan wrote:

frederick wrote:

Dejan wrote:

Im proud of our team.
Its not easy to almost win against Juvents, keep playing like that and it will be beautiful season.
FORZA LAZIO

If we can't win it against half strength Juventus, I wonder what would happen if we play them full strength?

We lost the game imo, We let them control the game after the 1st goal, we failed completely.. It was all Juve tonight..

What all Juve???
They had one chance from the whole game.

how many chance we had? nothing at all. so juve is winner when thay had lots of absent, especially in our home.
i think last night juve had only their name, & we loos to our selves Bc we fear ( especially delio) from only name of juve.

if we changed our names with them i think we could win them very easy. Bc our players was even more better than them in most position.

& i think delio is guilty. i think from last night that why he did that changes. maybe i dont know even a bit from football so if some one have know the reasons pliz tell me

Dejan wrote:

frederick wrote:

Dejan wrote:

Im proud of our team.
Its not easy to almost win against Juvents, keep playing like that and it will be beautiful season.
FORZA LAZIO

If we can't win it against half strength Juventus, I wonder what would happen if we play them full strength?

We lost the game imo, We let them control the game after the 1st goal, we failed completely.. It was all Juve tonight..

What all Juve???
They had one chance from the whole game.

Peace man :) What I'm trying to say is, we had this game in a bag, we should have had... It was our (possibly) strongest line up against a team who lost half of their squad due to injuries, suspensions etc.

Juve was all over us tonight, especially on the second half, I don't recall we had any clear chances, except the last ditch tackle on Foggia, that was it. On the other hand, they created more chances than us, Nedved got his shot blocked by Lichy, Sissoko had a strong run from midfield, no one actually tried to stop him, Marchisio hit the post etc

We were too scared, as you can see from Brocchi's and De Silvestri's substition, Rossi had planned for a draw since the 70th minutes

usampa wrote:

We totally outplayed and deprived of individuality their strongest weapons Amauri , Del Piero.If that is not improving....

Exactly. Their strikers didnt create anything through the whole game.
And first 25 minutes were simply amazing...we crushed them totaly.

Amauri and Piero were almost invisible...i cant say that to Rocchi/Pandev/Zarate.

Sgt. Pepper wrote:

I think my exact words were that Cribari is the closest we come to a defensive leader. Now weren´t they ? I think I also mentioned Cribari is prone to personal mistakes. Didn´t I ? So please don´t twist my words to fit your own opinion. Thanks

In any way, just to make myself clear, I don´t think Cribari is perfect. Far from, God. But I repeat that he is the closest we come to a defender, who is able to organize the defence. He is arguably the only defender we have, who to some extend is able to actually pass the ball forward. I noticed we lacked that aspect last night, which is why I thought it was a valuable point to make.

I agree with you that playing Diakité was a decent decision, which I won´t argue against. Amauri is tough to handle physically, so we needed Diakités strength to be able to cope with him (I think I mentioned that in my previous post as well by the way)

Please don´t call me a "Diakité Hater" whatever that strange term refers to. I don´t have any preferences towards any players as long as Lazio win. I relate to the game and I notice Diakité, while being strong in the direct challenges one on one (very good also last night), lacks the sense of positioning himself correctly just like it´s obvious that his technical ability isn´t good enough. Something which both Diakité himself and Rossi also stated during the christmas break were the aspects where he should improve.

I believe you also make a dramatic exaggeration when saying the defence looks more solid and "going to have a bright future" since Diakité stepped in. Let´s hope you´re right, but I think it´s a strange conclusion to come to since they costed two goals last weekend, Diakité being very responsible for the last one together with Radu.

Yes, Juve´s goal came from a set piece. But you don´t think it was a mistake??? I suggest you take a look at the video Testa posted on the previous page. Noone is moving along with the four Juventus players running onto the outswinging corner. The mistake was even repeated twice just after the Juventus goal... and you say it´s just unpredictbable?? Please... And I didn´t say the goal was Diakités mistake, rather it was Radu´s, but also not so important. The goal and the following set pieces just underlined the chaos and the lack of organization.

But ok, I think I recall you once announcing the arrival of a new superman in Diakité, so I suppose it´s hard to make any sense to you and the exchange of opinions might just stop here

I'm really sorry if my opinion seems to offend you (i really hope not), but I reckoned you as the first one that criticize Diakite and constantly doing so in the last couple of weeks, so my opinion was only made for balancing the opinion about him and with that I am thanking Diakite for what he did for the team and respecting Rossi's decision to make him a current lazio starter.

I'm really sorry if I twisted your opinion as you said earlier, I didn't really mean that, but please also don't twist my opinion to fit your opinion as well... I didn't say that Juve's set piece goal was NOT a mistake, I said "not solely the defenders mistake because at corner kick all the players should concentrate at defense"... so i was just trying to say that we shouldn't blame the mistake only to the defenders... all the players and rossi should be blamed for that, however I won't do that, because I think Rossi did a marvelous job this time and the team were fighting restless and brilliantly yesterday...

Furthermore, please respect my spirit and passion for Lazio, calling Diakite "superman" or maybe said Zarate is a "predator" just my style of saying my passion for lazio and their players and that is nothing to do with the "sense" you mentioned as supporting Lazio itself maybe doesn't make sense for many people i know but i still doing that eagerly.

Javier erfi Lopez wrote:

fuckkkkkkkkkkk u delio, u are mad, fuck u, u dont know football even as a donkey, your time is over in lazio, u are a looser when u fear, fuckkk u delio, what was rocchi and pandev do that u change zarate, lets make a letter for lotito for fire him, fuuck u delio and again fuck u stupid man, all of your sub was wrong, foooorzaaaaaa zarate, we are behind u, lets fuck delio

on the youtube clip posted earlier you can see Tare pushing Zarate, you draw your own conclusions. IMO Zarate was our best attacking player. their goal disturbed our game and we lost our advantage

I can't understand why you affront Mr.Rossi
1.In my opinion the starting 11 was perfect.
2.Delio Rossi is on a lerning process you can see this because No Mauri and No Manfredini starts
3.Zarate: He is a very good striker (maybe technical the best) but EVERY TIME he has the ball he wants to dribble, Ok sometimes we need some initiation but
really not by every time he touches the ball.
4.So i can understand why Mr.Rossi substitued Zarate and because of his reaction you can see that he has much to learn about teamplay.
(Look at Del Piero he was very dangerous with his freekicks and passe and when the coach substitued him no words from his side)
5.De Silvestri and Diakite would never play if Delio Rossi wasn't there so think about your words

Broencoceleste wrote:

I'm really sorry if my opinion seems to offend you (i really hope not), but I reckoned you as the first one that criticize Diakite and constantly doing so in the last couple of weeks, so my opinion was only made for balancing the opinion about him and with that I am thanking Diakite for what he did for the team and respecting Rossi's decision to make him a current lazio starter.

I'm really sorry if I twisted your opinion as you said earlier, I didn't really mean that, but please also don't twist my opinion to fit your opinion as well... I didn't say that Juve's set piece goal was NOT a mistake, I said "not solely the defenders mistake because at corner kick all the players should concentrate at defense"... so i was just trying to say that we shouldn't blame the mistake only to the defenders... all the players and rossi should be blamed for that, however I won't do that, because I think Rossi did a marvelous job this time and the team were fighting restless and brilliantly yesterday...

Furthermore, please respect my spirit and passion for Lazio, calling Diakite "superman" or maybe said Zarate is a "predator" just my style of saying my passion for lazio and their players and that is nothing to do with the "sense" you mentioned as supporting Lazio itself maybe doesn't make sense for many people i know but i still doing that eagerly.

No worries...

I am surely not offended as this is just a discussion about Lazio among laziali. Nothing else...

Yes, I have made some posts about Diakité which I guess could be interpreted as criticism. That was only partly my intention though. I think he deserved criticism first and foremost, but other than that, my intention was also to bring some balance to the countless posts insinuating we are dealing with the new Nesta. I believe that intention to be important, because a forum like this is worth much more, when it relates to reality rather than the opposite.

I surely believe Diakité could turn out to be Lazio material. Definitely he has done a lot better than I had ever expected him to do!!! As I have already said in my two previous posts (and also in the past) he is physically strong, good when challenging the opponent one on one and good in the aerial game. For those reasons (as I also said in my previous post) I agreed with Rossi´s decision to play him last night, because he seemed the only player able to just nearly match the physical and aerial threat coming from Amauri.

That being said... am I able to see any aspects in his game which he lacks ?? Yes... Is it important to mention ?? Yes, I think so when we have the 7th worst defence in Serie A.

I mentioned his positioning and his technical ability as aspects that he needs to improve. I brought up that issue in this topic, because I believe it was a problem last night against Juventus, that neither Diakité nor Rozehnal were able to start our attacks and play the ball forward. In my opinion that was the main reason why we came under such pressure in the second half.

When talking about things he should defintely improve, I could also have mentioned the number of personal mistakes. The own goal against Inter (where he nearly made a second as well) his horrible first half display in Udinese, the goal he costed in Reggio Calabria. I mean he only played 5 games (not counting the Coppa) so far if I´m not mistaken, so did he do well up until now... In my opinion...so and so

ledesma wrote:

I can't understand why you affront Mr.Rossi
1.In my opinion the starting 11 was perfect.
2.Delio Rossi is on a lerning process you can see this because No Mauri and No Manfredini starts
3.Zarate: He is a very good striker (maybe technical the best) but EVERY TIME he has the ball he wants to dribble, Ok sometimes we need some initiation but
really not by every time he touches the ball.
4.So i can understand why Mr.Rossi substitued Zarate and because of his reaction you can see that he has much to learn about teamplay.
(Look at Del Piero he was very dangerous with his freekicks and passe and when the coach substitued him no words from his side)
5.De Silvestri and Diakite would never play if Delio Rossi wasn't there so think about your words

1. i dont think anyone had problme with first 11, Bc even we dont like a person we cant speak about him bc we didnt see his traning, maybe he was best, we only speak about what we saw in the game

2. i think when he didnt use mauri inverse it`s his mistake. i dont say mauri is good or bad, when he use him always 4,5 game ago & then suddenly mauri not apear, it means that his belief & PERTINACITY was wrong from first. (maybe i cant say my opinion good bc of my lakslighte in english)

3. if a person gain ball & be so active that many ball end to him is better or he walk in game & gain no ball as last night pandev? im agree that zara act was wrong but delio really confuse him & all of us with his decision. & if u saw game which of our player come near to zara when he gain ball to pass them. (except rocchi & meghni that rocchi do nothing with ball when he gain recive pass maximom he pass it again to zara & as u see meghni that be better than other a bit he changed him, with who? brocchi )

4. dont forgwt that we played at home & juve was content with a tie

5. i dont think so that coming of dia & de silvestri indebted of delio, they are the resultant of our youth academy & such other players in our history they come to first team soon or later

Quote :

I mentioned his positioning and his technical ability as aspects that he needs to improve. I brought up that issue in this topic, because I believe it was a problem last night against Juventus, that neither Diakité nor Rozehnal were able to start our attacks and play the ball forward. In my opinion that was the main reason why we came under such pressure in the second half.

Then again this happens with pretty much any defensive pairing we use, all of them either pass the ball to Ledesma or hoof it forward or if they are feeling especially adventurous, try to pass it to Lichtsteiner. Notice that Carrizo too was just hoofing the ball forward, in other games he often passes it short. I suspect the instructions were to play it safe - and despite that we lost the ball in dangerous positinos quite a few times. That's where rube excels, they don't have much creativity, so they rely on pressing the opponent and creating chances out of nothing. It's no coincidence we had zero troubles in defence until after our goal when rube decided to press us more. But this was risky for them too as on a better day, one of our counters would have resulted in a goal.

I didn't see the game due to a storm in my area messing up the internet. However, just a few comments on the selection.

Diakite was a necessary selection I felt. We needed him to take Amauri's influence out of the game and from what I've read, he did it. I'm a big fan of Diakite but he is not starting eleven material at the moment. He is, however, a player we have to use to mark big target men so I feel his selection was justified.

Radu has looked out of sorts in recent weeks and the criticism is justified. He's not having the best of seasons but I also think we unconsciously compare him to Lichtsteiner which is unfair. He certainly deserves his place ahead of Kolarov at the minute. Ultimately, Rossi picked the best backline for this particular game.

Rossi seems to like the Meghni-Ledesma-Dabo midfield. I do too but I would prefer Brocchi over Dabo in big games like Juve. Juve are a pressing team and Brocchi would have been better suited for Juve I would have thought. Also, I would have played Mauri instead of Meghni for this one game.

I hope now people lay off Ledesma. Seems like he put in a good performance and believe me when I say the guy plays with heart. I hope he stays, shows his loyalty and takes the captains armband next season.

The tridente is not going to work against the bigger teams I don't believe, so Foggia should have been in there from the start. That's how I felt anyway.

Like I said, I didn't see the game, I'm glad Delio has found a starting eleven that he has faith in but I can't say I wholly agree with it.

Caxi wrote:

Diakite was a necessary selection I felt. We needed him to take Amauri's influence out of the game and from what I've read, he did it. I'm a big fan of Diakite but he is not starting eleven material at the moment. He is, however, a player we have to use to mark big target men so I feel his selection was justified.

First, you are not a true Lazio fan, Lazio fans have strong fillings about Lazio even a big storm cannot interrupt them. Just kidding man.

- You are the one that didn't watch the game but still manage to put all sides down, about Diakite you are 100% right but Einstein said everything is relative so you are 200 % right.

One more point, I'm I the one that thinks that tridente never worked. Is not Pandevs fault that he was "invisible" and also Rochhi. We are basically lacking of good connection between the mid and our att. I would do something like 4-4-2 with Zarate as a winger.

Other thing that most of you notice, Carizzo cannot understood with Roze and Diakite. Solution, probably not the best but reasonable is Cribari. Diakite is great and his time will come, I think his time from Primavera to first 11 was too fast.

Thank you all and FOrza Lazio

Torino to destroy in coppa and Calgari in Seria and we can be more peaceful.

Jofo wrote:

One more point, I'm I the one that thinks that tridente never worked. Is not Pandevs fault that he was "invisible" and also Rochhi. We are basically lacking of good connection between the mid and our att. I would do something like 4-4-2 with Zarate as a winger. .

Finally someone sharing similar position like mine...

the poor connection between mid and att is not from this season. we need a playmaker!

Weninho wrote:

Point well taken and I agree with you. What I mean is that by removing Meghni, replacing him a balance player like Brocchi, Rossi made a clear choice - he sacrified the victory chance to secure one point. It would have been the same if Mauri was playing in that role. So yes, I agree, Meghni as a player was never our last chance of winning. But rather the role he played in, if you understand.

I know that you, like me, always defended Mauri until it became practically impossible. So we're on the same page even there, I would definately not have been complaining if Rossi repleced Meghni by him.

Yepp..we are on the same page...


Think most things have been said by now, not really anything more to add than that it is time to leave this game behind us and focus on this week. We have Torino, and then an extremely important round in the league. This could be our chance to advance to the semis putting us close to a home game for a trophy. Would be very nice to see merda in a potential final. I know I am jumping to conclusions...but wouldnt that be nice?
After the Coppa game awaits an in form Cagliari. A good result for us there could see us move up in the table, pass a few teames and get a positive atmosphere and spirit to the team.

We could have taken all three yesterday, but we were satisfied with three and I would probably not have been annoyed if it wasnt for the start of the game where we showed that we could control juve...well...I am moving on now...


Forza!

I watched the game live on ESPN which was great because I hardly get to see Lazio here in NZ (apart from online highlights!)....

IMO the result could have swung either way with both teams having chances to get the full 3 points but I also feel that Lazio should have won because of the brilliant first half they played but as usual there is not much luck on the Biancocelesti side.

The referee was a wanker. Nedved elbows Lichtsteiner in the face, his nose bleeds and he gets nothing for it - not even a yellow card. Even the commentators were saying that in most cases a ref would give an instant red for that so Nedved was lucky to still be on the pitch, alas with nothing against his name! The Juve players did a lot of shirt pulling and were unpunished not even once in the first half. The first yellow card was when our Dabo tickled Nedved's foot at one point at the beginning of the second half and got booked for it. I actually stood up and said "WTF was that about!?"

The first half Lazio totally dominated Juventus with chance after chance going begging. Unlucky to only have scored once. Ariaudo denied Pandev a great opportunity to double the lead seconds after Ledesma's goal after Manninger only blocked the distant first time shot by sliding and distracting Goran. I was really f*cked off then as I knew it would probably cost the team something and it did less than 5 minutes later when a unmarked and no pressured Mellberg headed past Carrizo from their corner kick. The rest of the first half was pretty even with Lazio having another chance or two.

The second half was more equal and although all match long Juventus hardly made any attempts on goal, the ones they did were dangerous. The defense did well to keep out their star players Del Piero and Amauri. Both teams had good chances to score in the second period but it was not to be - they even hit the post in the last few minutes.

The starting lineup was a good one I thought (after being pissed off that Foggia and De Silvestri weren't included in it), as it dealt well with the Juventus one. Defense played well and the midfield was solid and balanced. The attack had some very good moments too. I agree that it was the best possible one available to Rossi so I thank him dearly for that and that it worked well too. As for the subs I think Foggia should have come on earlier and perhaps not for Zarate but for Pandev as I felt he did not play as well as he has in previous matches this season - but that is just my opinion. Brocchi coming on was tactically good I think as Lazio needed some defensive work to be done at that time and De Silvestri replacing Dabo was a good move too but perhaps he should have swapped positions with Lichtsteiner.

The team all played well and every player played a role in getting a hard fought but well earned point against a team like Juventus. I personally was not disappointed at anyone but players I thought underperformed were Pandev, and Zarate's anger and annoyance at being substituted gave me a very negative feeling. Man of the match for me was Ledesma I would have to say as he did well to control the midfield, scored the goal and tried very hard - and created some very good chances, and Rocchi and Lichtsteiner also had very good games. As for Juventus I think Molinaro had a very impressive outing as did most of their back line and well done to the youngster Ariaudo making his Serie A debut.

A bit disappointed that the team could not snatch the full 3 points which I believe they deserved (especially after the great first half showing) but a point is a point and against a top team like Juve who are second in the league and into the next rounds of the UCL, it is a point well appreciated and I hope the team and coach see it that way too and keep on improving for the rest of the season.

Next is Torino at home in the Coppa Italia which is a must win game and so is the game after that against a very much improved and strong Cagliari side, also at home, in Serie A!


FORZA LAZIO!!!!

I agree that our defenders make mistakes, though it's a team effort to defend just like it is to attack. I also agree we lack of connection and understanding between the diffrent positions. I still hope Rossi will change his system to 4-4-2. I think it's very sad to see Meghni play in a straight line threeman mid with Dabo and Ledesma, probably he would be very more useful as the top in a diamond formation with Ledesma as dm, Foggia on the right wing and maybe Kolarov or Mauri on left (until we sign a real leftwing). Put Pandev and Zarate on top, Rocchi as the supersub. IMO that would be THE great formation. As for the defence I am one of those missing Cribari, though happy to see Diakithé starting our games in able to improve as a player. Props to Rossi for giving De Silvestri playtime, maybe him or Lichty (IMO our best player) could move up on the mid if Foggia can be as good on the left.

I am worried that Foggia will leave to get more playingtime, he is one of MY favourites and I really miss him from start almost every game.

Please signore Rossi, dump the 4-3-3, and get the most out of your players!!!!!!!!

12tnr wrote:

I agree that our defenders make mistakes, though it's a team effort to defend just like it is to attack. I also agree we lack of connection and understanding between the diffrent positions. I still hope Rossi will change his system to 4-4-2. I think it's very sad to see Meghni play in a straight line threeman mid with Dabo and Ledesma, probably he would be very more useful as the top in a diamond formation with Ledesma as dm, Foggia on the right wing and maybe Kolarov or Mauri on left (until we sign a real leftwing). Put Pandev and Zarate on top, Rocchi as the supersub. IMO that would be THE great formation. As for the defence I am one of those missing Cribari, though happy to see Diakithé starting our games in able to improve as a player. Props to Rossi for giving De Silvestri playtime, maybe him or Lichty (IMO our best player) could move up on the mid if Foggia can be as good on the left.

I am worried that Foggia will leave to get more playingtime, he is one of MY favourites and I really miss him from start almost every game.

Please signore Rossi, dump the 4-3-3, and get the most out of your players!!!!!!!!

He is my favourite Lazio player and I too fear the same mate :(

i hope rossi would try to put foggia in the first 11 instead of meghni .
so , we can have a balance in our team and also good attackers !! ZA-PA-RO-FO !!!!

FORZA LAZIO