Pandev, Ledesma, De Silvestri...Lotito!

Caxi wrote:

On the forum here and in the stands of Rome, we all knew Pandev was leaving. It was evident, rumours everywhere, his body language was different, all the signs were there. Lotito must have saw that; there is no way he didn't know. Why not "nail" him to the stands sooner? We had nothing to play for in those league games but Goran still featured. He got what we labelled as his "farewell."

Lotito sells when a decent offer is on the table. Rozehnal went for a fair price as did De Silvestri. I don't believe for a second that a bid of anywhere near 20million was ever made while Goran was here. Neither do I believe Lotito ever expected it. There was an attitude on the forum here over the summer that suggested to me that if we didn't get an offer of at least 10 or 15million then we should keep a hold of him. We did that but people still expect Pandev to be playing this season despite the fact that he was not up to the task last season when his blood began to boil. Freezing him out was bad for the team but for me, there was absolutely no sense in playing someone who was that unhappy. Equally detrimental in my opinion. I give Lotito enough credit that he would have sold Goran if it was more economically beneficial than making a harsh statement with a hardline stance. For me, all Claudio really did wrong was going overboard with his stance. Goran wanted to play, but not here.

According to his agent, Pandev was offered an "acceptable" contract some weeks after he said in public that he wanted to leave. That’s a clear sign Lotito was still hoping to keep him. The reason he was frozen out after the summer was because he refused to sign the contract and Lotito wasn’t able to sell him. Then he saw a way of punishing him. Which is strange, because apparently Lotito was prepared to let him stay despite using the "Pandev-came-to-me-and-said-he-wanted-to-leave-argument" during the whole autumn. The problem was that the contract-offer was about two years deleyed.

He did not get a farewell. Lotito was still hoping to keep him. If Pandev had announced in March that he wanted to leave I’m sure he would have been treated in the same way and kept outside, only because Lotito would knew he had the advantage in Pandev’s contract expiring in 2010 and an upcoming summer marker. It's all about punishment.

About the attitude on the forum and expectations of Pandev to play, I can only say that I can’t take responsibility for what other members said and wanted. My opinion was to sell him when the rumors about Zenit started to zip out. And the reason I wanted him to play is because he’s too good to be kept on the bench when fighting for avoiding relegation. I agree the Pandev case is special, because Lotito signed Cruz which looked like a great move, but it’s even clearer in Ledesma’s and De Silvestri’s cases. It was obvious already from the start that the qualities that these players possess had not been replaced.

I will continue to argue that Pandev would not have disrespected the club and the supporters had he gotten the chance to play. And I will continue to argue that even if he would not be at 100 %, he would contribute three times more than players like Makinwa and Del Nero.

Caxi wrote:

Doesn't the old Rocchi contract saga say otherwise? The same Rocchi, the 'laziale,' the captain of our club who defended Lotito after the mercato? What about the die-hard laziale in Firmani going missing from the courtcase after one measly game in the biancoceleste shirt? He really showed his support for Pandev in the end, didn't he?

Rocchi would be the exception confirming the rule since he is the only one that was offered a new acceptable contract. But still, it was too late.

I don’t really see where Firmani´s and Rocchi’s Lazialitá fits into this discussion, however. It’s said Firmani was given an extension because Rossi though he was an important player to have in the dressing room. And since Manfredini got the extension for the same reasons I think it’s pretty clear Lotito did not renew because he admired Firmani’s Lazialitá.

Caxi wrote:

There is a salary cap to keep this club out of financial trouble and minimise what Lotito loses from this club (sadly) and if we want big names, we have to offer them the salary cap wage. I see it with Brocchi, with Zarate, with Cruz and the top notch incomings. Why do you doubt Pandev was offered the same? Rocchi was offered the salary cap when he extended; it was late but it was offered. Pandev's representatives said he was offered a deal that was financially sufficient. 2million sounds about right to me. Too late, perhaps, but if Goran was like Tommaso, Claudio would be smelling of roses now. Therein lies the difference and shows the fine line between being a hero and being a zero.

I don’t doubt Pandev was offered an extension. Probably in the same league as Rocchi. But looking at the fact we know, he was offered an extension during the summer when he already had decided to leave. I can’t exclude he was offered one before but let’s face it, everything points in other directions. In December 2008 Pallavicini said that there were ongoing discussions with Lotito about a new contract. During the spring 2009 Lotito said he wanted "to renew at any cost" and that he wished for "a sense of responsibility from every part". From that I can only see that there had been no concrete offer but only discussions.

The problem is very simple. Lotito has/had players like Del Nero, Bonetto, Manfredini, Scaloni and Eliseu that holds long contracts with Lazio. They are not contributing much but they are all, expect from Eliseu, under the salary cap, like almost every other player in our extra large squad. With those costs removed it would not be a problem to go well over the salary cap with players like Pandev and Ledesma.

Pandev recently said that he often though about staying in Lazio for his entire career but that it was not possible. I think it’s crucial to look at what he did for Lazio before bashing him. How much he contributed and how unfair he was treated economically during this period. How much he was substituted but always kept his mouth shut about it. How he choose not use the article 17 that would have allowed him to go to another team for a very low figure. How he accepted to play a role behind Rocchi despite being way better.

Does this look like a player that wanted to harm Lazio in any way? Or does it look like he gave a lot but got nothing in return, and got pissed?

Truth is that even if he was offered a contract of 2 million euros in a decent time it would be hard to blame him for wanting to leave. Delio Rossi treated him badly, and he’s aware he did. He defended him in public as soon as this afternoon in radio.

Caxi wrote:

I can Johan because they are not blameless. Obviously a certain president tarnished his reputation but he tarnished it a long time ago. Pandev, Rossi and De Silvestri have made themselves look bad in exposing Lotito. We don't need them to use Lotito as an excuse for leaving the club, we know what the guy is like, just leave, thank the fans, say you had a good time and shut up.

But they are not using Lotito as an excuse to leave Lazio, they only put words on what’s obvious. And to me neither Pandev, Rossi or De Silvestri look bad. The only person that looks bad is the one that completely ignored their contributions and devotion to these colors. No one really accused Rossi or anyone else when leaving. There has to be a reason for that.

Caxi wrote:

We are all worried because a bad atmosphere will hold even the best players back. The situation has been exacerbated by revolt and the only way of stopping the rot is by stopping the revolt. If Lotito won that court case, sure, the atmosphere would still linger but the revolt would be halted and it wouldn't get much worse. The ruling in Pandev's favour threatens to spiral the club further out of control. Now, and only now, am I truly worried...

The spiral has been out of control for a long time. And the root the problem to me is pretty simple. But ok, I agree that the decision was not good for Lazio, far from. But I can’t say that I felt anything special when I noticed the sentence. Only happy for Goran to be honest. I don’t want Lazio to be associated with those ways of handling players that gave a lot to our colors.

@ Centro: I'm not your bro...

@ Weni: You always argue a damn good case There's obviously an element of foolishness about the way Lotito manages the players and I can't argue against that, it's just, recent cases demand less sympathy than others. Which, I think you agree on.

The true test for Lotito in my eyes is how he handles the future dissidenti. The Ledesma situation disgusts me, it truly does and if it ends in a similar resolution, enough is enough.

Caxi wrote:

@ Centro: I'm not your bro...

@ Weni: You always argue a damn good case There's obviously an element of foolishness about the way Lotito manages the players and I can't argue against that, it's just, recent cases demand less sympathy than others. Which, I think you agree on.

The true test for Lotito in my eyes is how he handles the future dissidenti. The Ledesma situation disgusts me, it truly does and if it ends in a similar resolution, enough is enough.

It is enough allready. It was enough when Di Canio was forced out of the club. I want Lotito out of Lazio and his albino bitch smelling ass Tare as soon as possible. I never wish death of people but recent weeks some ugly thoughts crossed my mind for these two motherFukkers....And Balla aswell.

its clear enough that lottito do not cares about lazialita,but also its clear that as the menager he s to poor and stupid,pandev was lost without money and he had a chance almost one year,he take the players on loan(after they create a name here and they also went without a money-jimenez case),he lose the young players(behrami,de silvestri)he brings the player like cruz(nothing against-but 34 years old).spend the money in goalkeeper like carrizo(12m-no coment)and now he s ready to give him in saragosa for 9m....
even if he fixed ledesma case for me personaly he will be realy poor menager without idea what footbal is all about.with one good move(zarate)you can not say that you re the smart one(21 century we can also search in you tube and find some new zarate )
we must wait for the time when we will have some president who even if dont love the club to much will be smart and profesional,a director who knows what is footbal,and the coach with ambicions and ideas,i just hope that this time will come soon

Caxi wrote:

@ Centro: I'm not your bro...

@ Weni: You always argue a damn good case There's obviously an element of foolishness about the way Lotito manages the players and I can't argue against that, it's just, recent cases demand less sympathy than others. Which, I think you agree on.

The true test for Lotito in my eyes is how he handles the future dissidenti. The Ledesma situation disgusts me, it truly does and if it ends in a similar resolution, enough is enough.

Caxi, bro. When you say element do you mean it like "daily vitamin E could extend your life 2months" or is it more like "uranium is bad for you".

Lotito is ruining this club not only the spirit of the club but the sporting quality of the club. When people like Zamparini can joke about the president of Lazio you know things are not so good (or as you would say it - element of bad".

You remind me of a girlfriend I had. She used to get into arguments and keep arguing not to lose face. You have to face it - you are wrong! stop supporting what Lotito does and look at the facts.

1. Lotito was allowed to take over Lazio because the creditors didnt want to lose all their money.
2. Lotito has since taking over Lazio devalued it´s market value much like world war 1 devalued the german currency.
3. Our squad is old and filled of players who couldn´t care less and there is really nothing we can do about it.'
4. Players are fighting in courts to leave Lazio: De Silvestri, Pandev, Ledesma, Behrami .... who´s next?

On 2 occasions Lotito really had a great chance to build a new Lazio

1. When we qualified for the CL.
2. Ahead of this season.

Remind me again - what is the end result?

This isn´t our club anymore. It´s a poor, stupid, arrogant mans toy - and it´s breaking.

centrocampista wrote 1. Lotito was allowed to take over Lazio because the creditors didnt want to lose all their money.
2. Lotito has since taking over Lazio devalued it´s market value much like world war 1 devalued the german currency.
3. Our squad is old and filled of players who couldn´t care less and there is really nothing we can do about it.'
4. Players are fighting in courts to leave Lazio: De Silvestri, Pandev, Ledesma, Behrami .... who´s next?

On 2 occasions Lotito really had a great chance to build a new Lazio

1. When we qualified for the CL.
2. Ahead of this season.

Remind me again - what is the end result?

This isn´t our club anymore. It´s a poor, stupid, arrogant mans toy - and it´s breaking.

total agree,more than 100%

centrocampista,you're the man

Centrocampista wrote:

You remind me of a girlfriend I had.

She must have been a beautiful one








*post of 2009

My biggest fear is coming true with Lazio. I remember Parma and Fiorentina had greats teams in the late 90's and early 00's and they got in to financial trouble and other problems etc. Well one by one all the great players were sold. When they had good young players they sold them to and eventually ended up getting relegated. Took them years to get back in Serie A. Well Lazio had great teams in the mid 90's to early 00's. Well you know what happened. They had to sell all of there superstars also. Lazio still manage to keep competitive for a few more years. But the last couple of seasons especially this season the team is very weak. Lazio have so many average to below average players. Lazio is going down the same road as the teams above. They buy bench warmers from other teams and think they will be great playing for Lazio which is never the case. Take a look at some of the players that are or were on Lazio from the last 2-3 years and check there stats before they came to Lazio. Most of them were garbage. Now Lazio have some good players that are in a bad funk right now like zarate, Kolarov, foggia, Rocchi etc. There names seem to come up being sold and wanting to leave all the time. I blame Lotito for most of this because he is a cheep bastard and doesn't know how to run this team. If you think Lazio will get good money or great players in return for some of these guys you are wrong. If Lazio has any hope of staying up this season they have to hold on to the good players and try to buy some quality players in Jan. I think it will be a mistake to get rid of kolarov right now especially when we know Lazio will get nothing for him. Got nothing for Pandev, Ledesma will be sold for peanuts in Jan and got smelling as for Rozehnal. I have been following Lazio for many years and I am sick to my stomach about this teams future. I can't believe the coach hasn't been fired yet. Its like Lotito wants this team to be relegated. If no big transfers and changes happen in Jan they will be in Serie B next season. Lazio have only 3 wins on the season which is pathetic. Lotito is a joke in the soccer world and he is killing Lazio. No good players want to play for this club anymore because of him and only him. So to all that support him wake up. Lazio will never be feared like they once were with Lotito in charge.

Jofo wrote:

Centrocampista wrote:

You remind me of a girlfriend I had.

She must have been a beautiful one








*post of 2009

I refrained from such jokes as I thought Sile would be lurking somewhere

Caxi wrote:

Jofo wrote:

Centrocampista wrote:

You remind me of a girlfriend I had.

She must have been a beautiful one








*post of 2009

I refrained from such jokes as I thought Sile would be lurking somewhere

Sile was off drinking somewhere today so this slipped under the radar. But be careful

centrocampista wrote:

You remind me of a girlfriend I had.

That's just weird!

Am I the only one that can see that Caxi clearly doesn't like Lotito? The problem everyone has with him is that he can see the possibility that there are other problems with the team too that may or may not be attributed to Lotito. In this case he is simply stating that he doesn't feel sympathy for Pandev, nothing wrong with that. If people can't see that then re-read his posts....

centrocampista wrote:

Caxi wrote:

@ Centro: I'm not your bro...

@ Weni: You always argue a damn good case There's obviously an element of foolishness about the way Lotito manages the players and I can't argue against that, it's just, recent cases demand less sympathy than others. Which, I think you agree on.

The true test for Lotito in my eyes is how he handles the future dissidenti. The Ledesma situation disgusts me, it truly does and if it ends in a similar resolution, enough is enough.

Caxi, bro. When you say element do you mean it like "daily vitamin E could extend your life 2months" or is it more like "uranium is bad for you".

Lotito is ruining this club not only the spirit of the club but the sporting quality of the club. When people like Zamparini can joke about the president of Lazio you know things are not so good (or as you would say it - element of bad".

You remind me of a girlfriend I had. She used to get into arguments and keep arguing not to lose face. You have to face it - you are wrong! stop supporting what Lotito does and look at the facts.

1. Lotito was allowed to take over Lazio because the creditors didnt want to lose all their money.
2. Lotito has since taking over Lazio devalued it´s market value much like world war 1 devalued the german currency.
3. Our squad is old and filled of players who couldn´t care less and there is really nothing we can do about it.'
4. Players are fighting in courts to leave Lazio: De Silvestri, Pandev, Ledesma, Behrami .... who´s next?

On 2 occasions Lotito really had a great chance to build a new Lazio

1. When we qualified for the CL.
2. Ahead of this season.

Remind me again - what is the end result?

This isn´t our club anymore. It´s a poor, stupid, arrogant mans toy - and it´s breaking.

Couldn't agree more with you... but the thing is, no one would buy Lazio, and lotito wouldn't want to sell Lazio for peanuts, unless some Sheik spends billion on Lazio or by law he has to sell the club, or someone kills him, then he will still be our El Presidente

We have to accept the fact we'd stuck with this man.. There's nothing we could do other than supports the Jersey, not lotito, not Tare not even Balla

frederick wrote:

centrocampista wrote:

Caxi wrote:

@ Centro: I'm not your bro...

@ Weni: You always argue a damn good case There's obviously an element of foolishness about the way Lotito manages the players and I can't argue against that, it's just, recent cases demand less sympathy than others. Which, I think you agree on.

The true test for Lotito in my eyes is how he handles the future dissidenti. The Ledesma situation disgusts me, it truly does and if it ends in a similar resolution, enough is enough.

Caxi, bro. When you say element do you mean it like "daily vitamin E could extend your life 2months" or is it more like "uranium is bad for you".

Lotito is ruining this club not only the spirit of the club but the sporting quality of the club. When people like Zamparini can joke about the president of Lazio you know things are not so good (or as you would say it - element of bad".

You remind me of a girlfriend I had. She used to get into arguments and keep arguing not to lose face. You have to face it - you are wrong! stop supporting what Lotito does and look at the facts.

1. Lotito was allowed to take over Lazio because the creditors didnt want to lose all their money.
2. Lotito has since taking over Lazio devalued it´s market value much like world war 1 devalued the german currency.
3. Our squad is old and filled of players who couldn´t care less and there is really nothing we can do about it.'
4. Players are fighting in courts to leave Lazio: De Silvestri, Pandev, Ledesma, Behrami .... who´s next?

On 2 occasions Lotito really had a great chance to build a new Lazio

1. When we qualified for the CL.
2. Ahead of this season.

Remind me again - what is the end result?

This isn´t our club anymore. It´s a poor, stupid, arrogant mans toy - and it´s breaking.

Couldn't agree more with you... but the thing is, no one would buy Lazio, and lotito wouldn't want to sell Lazio for peanuts, unless some Sheik spends billion on Lazio or by law he has to sell the club, or someone kills him, then he will still be our El Presidente

We have to accept the fact we'd stuck with this man.. There's nothing we could do other than supports the Jersey, not lotito, not Tare not even Balla

Fredrick - first let me say thanks for agreeing with me

Second ... we don´t know if anyone would buy Lazio - we have no clue.

1. Yes no one would buy Lazio when the italian goverment wanted 200mil usd in tax debt (was it more?)
2. Yes no one would buy Lazio if Lotito asked for 500mil euro (he named that price a couple of times)

But I´m 100% positive that for the right price we would have an owner - simply because soccer is the biggest stage in the world at the moment.

If Lotito is forced to sell then he will sell - he is not a rich man (compared to rich men).

I will say this (and it´s not to support Lotito) - I wish Cragnotti had just a couple % Lotito in his DNA ... just a few.

centrocampista wrote:

I will say this (and it´s not to support Lotito) - I wish Cragnotti had just a couple % Lotito in his DNA ... just a few.

Credit where credit's due, you have redeemed yourself to me somewhat with that statement.